Help us make the new Upload page better

-Point 11, excellent move!!!
-Point 9, Shouldn't the time of day be on each photo as photos maybe spread over a wide time period

how will jumping between tabs work, is it possible to start upload using Lightroom/FTP and then move to the webpage to start building your story and jump between tabs to see what's uploaded and ready to add?

Is it possible to maybe have a map app and/or GPS metadata import to pinpoint location?

Looking very good though!!!

Glad you like the autosave option, that was something we had to include given the number of people who've had problems with their connection dropping - due to problems on client and server side, depending on time of day, phase of the moon, whims of fate...

As for the time, by default each photo will have the same time as you enter for the story. You can uncheck that box on each photo, and you will then be able to enter an individual time for that specific image.

The tabs - the one shown in the image is the web upload tab.

The other tab will contain all of the images you've uploaded through any of the FTP methods (desktop uploader, plugins, other FTP program) exactly as the "Existing Media" area on the current upload page does.

I'll raise the map idea with tech - as camera tech advances we'll probably be seeing a lot more geotagged photos coming in from you guys out there, so it might work very well.

thanks for the reponse - keep 'em coming!

Hello Tom,

certainly looks promising and a huge step forward in making the uploading easy and more manageable.

Of course, the auto save is a must; how did we live without this in the past???

Even the draft save has been an item that we have long asked for and now it is here. I am sure that this will make all our lives easier.

The fact that the images and individual image tags are on the same upload page would make it more inviting and easier to actually enter individual tags. The present process is a bit long winded and by the time we see the last edit page we would want to click the save button asap before the line goes dead.

In the meantime, I would add more details in section 1 on how to upload photos and maybe a help link or FAQ rather than the world wide distribution and money: but this stage I would say that people would already know about these things.

If people need to be spoon fed these basics on the upload page maybe they ought to rethink photojournalism. On the other hand, a link to the terms and conditions would, however, be very useful.

A second item might be to move the image section to the very end. Personally it does not seem to bother me, but it might annoy some people to find a few more text fields to complete after having spent a good while captioning and tagging the individual images.

Q: is there a limit to the number of tags that can be included both in the general section and individual image?

Well done to the tech team as well!!

Thanks and best

Lawrence

Can't wait to try it out as already said the separate "save"and publish" buttons will be very useful.

I would also add to the set up screen of the Lightroom plug-in that "the title is 70 Characters and he caption 250 characters." I could not find these numbers anywhere the other day when I was putting captions into lightroom. Also add it to the FAQ's .

Hello,
I think all these improvements are convenient.

""What features can you think of that we could add? ""
I would ask for this:
Please try to make the uploading page as fast as you can.
Sometimes it is very slow, especially when you save your work.
May be heavy scripts, slow down the page.
(For example, a heavy script I have in mind, not so useful, is the lightbox preview of the pictures which gives a bigger picture when the mouse pointer is over the thumbnail. This script runs with the current uploader.
I think that the photographer knows well the pictures from the thumbnails, and can sacrifice the overlay bigger previews for getting more speed on creating the story.)

-------
P.S. I have edited my post and deleted what I asked before for IPTC captions. It is already working as I realized by making a test story.

I find the Demotix FTP loader is fine for uploading. It just gets on with it. That can be used stand alone. Much better than trying to use the upload page..... perhaps the upload page could be phased out?

Now I use the Lightroom plug in and that takes the captions and metadata. (works on both Intel and PPC MACs and LR2.7 and LR3) My only minor grip is that the LR plug in does not mention the 250 char limit on captions. There was no way to find the limiting number without going in to a story editing phase. (It's on the whiteboard now but it could do to be as a Reminder note on the LR plug-in.

It's definitely an improvement to the existing one.

Some comments for possible improvements

2) Title and Summary have a specific format. Would it be possible, to pre-fill these fields with either a standard template or a generated one, based on the date and location of the story? If this is not possible, there should be at least a link to the templates,
4/5) It's not quite clear, how you move pictures that were uploaded separately to the story.
6) Would it be possible, to pick up the Exif date and time, rather than to have it to add manually?
6) Do you have to switch this for every picture or is there a global switch for all pictures on a story?
7) A possibility, to store your own keyword lists, to be re-used in future stories (I do this in Photo Mechanic for my pictures, but it would be great, to do something similar for the story keywords)
7) how are the keywords for the whole story and for the pictures related? At the moment, the keywords from the story are entered first and then copied to the pictures. The new layout has the picture keywords first and then the story keywords. That could be confusing, if the same direction of copying is used.
I don't like the way you can re-order pictures. I liked the current version, where you have all pictures on top and you can move them around.

others
- has the the additional Information switch to be pressed for every picture or is there a global switch?
- How does the Category field in the 'Your story' box (which states Politics in the example) relate to the category fields in the 'Categories and Keywords' box?
- the summary field doesn't have a remaining characters count.
- the last box is called Categories and Keywords, but the actual keyword field is called tags (as are all other keyword fields) a little bit confusing
- a tick box could be added to each photo, to select photos for bulk operations (move, delete or even editing the fields)
- are the mandatory fields only for the final publishing and can they be empty in the draft version?
- the remaining characters count is on the right side of the picture caption box and on the left for the other boxes that have them

for a future version:
One of the main issues I have with the current upload page are the waiting times between uploading the photos (by FTP), then saving page 1 and page 2. Each of these 3 waiting steps seems to take a long time. It would be great if that could somehow be automated.
An idea for this would be:
The photographer creates a draft of the story before he leaves for the shoot. This story gets an unique ID for him. After the shoot, he fills the required IPTC fields of the photos and uploads them to a directory that has the unique ID as a name. Demotix automatically assigns these pictures to the story and automatically publishes the story, as soon as all pictures are uploaded (start a timer after the first picture is uploaded and when the uploads stops, e.g. 5 or 10 min without a photo being uploaded, the story is published). The photographer could then update the story with more text when he comes home. This would allow the photographer, to get the photos out with a minimum of effort on the street.

I agree with @Lawrence on Point 1: Totally irrelevant as it stands. Much more useful to show actual upload tips -- FTP, email, LR, Demotix Uploader options.

Point 4: Non-Flash-based upload system is better. Question: are multiple uploads in a single step possible (multiple select off HD)? Or do we upload one-by-one? If one-by-one, then do we wait for image upload to finish and become visible before uploading next image? During upload, is there a progress bar, or % in numbers? I'm always praying for a sustained connection, and try to stay cool when it drops!

Point 8: Nice tip! Good to know and worth mentioning in an updated upload faq.

Point 11: Yippeee!

[A] Do I think that this new design will improve your uploading experience?Yes.

[B] What features can you think of that we could add? Please harvest date & time directly from image metadata! The latest example of a successful implementation of this feature is http://www.500px.com (move over Flickr )

[C] Is there anything you definitely don't like? Don't like manually entering date & time of image capture! Here we are, connecting on a wing and a prayer, and I'm typing data that's already embedded in the image file

In general:

@Chris: FTP was my fave option. Now it just doesn't work (login error). Neither does email; it used to work. Demotix Uploader never worked for me. I don't own LR or Photo Mechanic. Presently, direct upload is the only, and iffy, option.

In sum:

A solid and welcome improvement. Well done! Thank you!

One other thing, is there a hard and fast reason why there is a 25 photo limit on stories, I have had to create three identical stories of the Anti-War protest from saturday so I can fit a good selection of shots that cover the day. If the upload amount can't be unlimited could it at least be raised to a more healthy amount?

Point 11 sounds very good however!

Why are tags #7, and key words #10 all optional entries?

@ James The reason why there is a 25 picture limit is this is a news wire not flickr. The most pictures I have ever had published on a single story is 15. That was a double page spread for the biggest event in the town for years.

As a reporter you should be editing down the number of pictures you post to Demotix. If you listen to the talk by Martin Bell on conflict reporting ( http://www.frontlineclub.com/blogs/theforum/2011/09/martin-bell-neutrality-safety-and-how-not-to-do-television-news.html )he says use ONE iconic image otherwise it gets too much. Many images will weaken the effect.

So (as any picture editor will tell you) edit your images down to 25 MAX. I note Peter Marshal covered the same demo/march with less than 25 images.
http://www.demotix.com/news/864374/ten-years-stop-war-coalition-london

Hi everyone, thanks so much for your feedback - I've responded individually below. Beware, it's a bit of an epic...

Lawrence
In the meantime, I would add more details in section 1 on how to upload photos and maybe a help link or FAQ rather than the world wide distribution and money: but this stage I would say that people would already know about these things.

good idea - I think that's just filler/placeholder at the moment, but we'll probably go in that direction rather than the "Demotix is great" stuff.

Lawrence
move the image section to the very end. Personally it does not seem to bother me, but it might annoy some people to find a few more text fields to complete after having spent a good while captioning and tagging the individual images.

That's been a massive debate from start to finish with this new design, right from whether or not we should merge the two upload pages. Personally I don't think it's that onerous to fill out the location, time and categories - all the "heavy" text stuff is before the captioning. We can see, though, how people feel about it once it's live and change in response to feedback if necessary.

Lawrence
is there a limit to the number of tags that can be included both in the general section and individual image?

The limit is 35 tags for each.. You also can't enter a tag that is more than 4 words long.

Chris
I would also add to the set up screen of the Lightroom plug-in that "the title is 70 Characters and he caption 250 characters." I could not find these numbers anywhere the other day when I was putting captions into lightroom. Also add it to the FAQ's .

I've dropped that into tech's to-do list... it is, however, a very long list, so no promises on timing I'm afraid. I can stick it in the FAQ's right away though.

Michael
2) Title and Summary have a specific format. Would it be possible, to pre-fill these fields with either a standard template or a generated one, based on the date and location of the story? If this is not possible, there should be at least a link to the templates,

I think that might be a bit beyond our technical capabilities at the moment - and it's not really a huge amount of typing. I agree that there should be examples of good titles for people to follow stylistically. These will be included in the FAQs and training video that we'll be producing in conjunction with the new page..

Michael
4/5) It's not quite clear, how you move pictures that were uploaded separately to the story.

Once you've selected pictures from the "Previously Uploaded" tab, they appear in the list as shown, then you can re-order them just like photos you you upload via the web.

Michael
6) Would it be possible, to pick up the Exif date and time, rather than to have it to add manually?
6) Do you have to switch this for every picture or is there a global switch for all pictures on a story?

By default, this box is ticked, so you just have to type the time and date once (at the bottom) giving a rough idea of when the story was.

I'll ask tech if we can add an option to pick up exif data from the images as well.

Michael
7) A possibility, to store your own keyword lists, to be re-used in future stories (I do this in Photo Mechanic for my pictures, but it would be great, to do something similar for the story keywords)
7) how are the keywords for the whole story and for the pictures related? At the moment, the keywords from the story are entered first and then copied to the pictures. The new layout has the picture keywords first and then the story keywords. That could be confusing, if the same direction of copying is used.

First idea is a good one, but I'll have to check with tech if we have the resources to do it.

The second point is well made and I'll discuss it with tech. A lot of you guys out there seem to want to have things in the same order (i.e. general story information, then drilling down into individual photo metadata) as it is now. Is that a fair assessment?

Michael
others
- has the the additional Information switch to be pressed for every picture or is there a global switch?
- How does the Category field in the 'Your story' box (which states Politics in the example) relate to the category fields in the 'Categories and Keywords' box?
- the summary field doesn't have a remaining characters count.
- the last box is called Categories and Keywords, but the actual keyword field is called tags (as are all other keyword fields) a little bit confusing
- a tick box could be added to each photo, to select photos for bulk operations (move, delete or even editing the fields)
- are the mandatory fields only for the final publishing and can they be empty in the draft version?
- the remaining characters count is on the right side of the picture caption box and on the left for the other boxes that have them

-at the moment the additional information switch has to be pressed for every picture, but you're right - if someone's going to use it for one photo, they're probably going to use it for most or all of them.

-A lot of people don't use the subcategories at the moment, so we want to have them placed in at least one top-level category by the user so the publishing team doesn't have to work it out for themselves. The remaining category choices are then available for more advanced users.

-good point on the remaining characters, that goes on the to-do list

-as previous point, on the list it goes :)

-that's a nice idea as far as moves and deletion are concerned, but we are trying to move away from identical entries (especially captions) on all the photos - that's why there's no "copy media summary to captions" button this time around. I do agree that other metadata could usefully be common to all the photos, though.

-I'll make sure that mandatory fields don't have to be filled in to save the story as a draft - on the list it goes.

-good point, we don't want to confuse people! Another one for the list :)

Michael
for a future version:
One of the main issues I have with the current upload page are the waiting times between uploading the photos (by FTP), then saving page 1 and page 2. Each of these 3 waiting steps seems to take a long time. It would be great if that could somehow be automated.
An idea for this would be:
The photographer creates a draft of the story before he leaves for the shoot. This story gets an unique ID for him. After the shoot, he fills the required IPTC fields of the photos and uploads them to a directory that has the unique ID as a name. Demotix automatically assigns these pictures to the story and automatically publishes the story, as soon as all pictures are uploaded (start a timer after the first picture is uploaded and when the uploads stops, e.g. 5 or 10 min without a photo being uploaded, the story is published). The photographer could then update the story with more text when he comes home. This would allow the photographer, to get the photos out with a minimum of effort on the street.

Great ideas here, but I think you're right in assuming it's going to have to wait until a future version - this iteration is mainly about getting it to work as intuitively and flowingly as possible, and we'll wait until we have that solid foundation to add more advanced features like this.

Dev
I agree with @Lawrence on Point 1: Totally irrelevant as it stands. Much more useful to show actual upload tips -- FTP, email, LR, Demotix Uploader options.

Point taken, and it will be changed.

Dev
Point 4: Non-Flash-based upload system is better. Question: are multiple uploads in a single step possible (multiple select off HD)? Or do we upload one-by-one? If one-by-one, then do we wait for image upload to finish and become visible before uploading next image? During upload, is there a progress bar, or % in numbers? I'm always praying for a sustained connection, and try to stay cool when it drops!

Multiple uploads are indeed possible. There will be a progress bar - agree that a visible % would be useful.

Dev
[C] Is there anything you definitely don't like? Don't like manually entering date & time of image capture! Here we are, connecting on a wing and a prayer, and I'm typing data that's already embedded in the image file

You don't have to manually enter the date and time of each photo if you don't want to - you can just use the one you enter for the whole story. I agree that there should be the option to use the metadata to fill out these fields, and that it should be a single switch you can hit to affect all the photos.

Dev
@Chris: FTP was my fave option. Now it just doesn't work (login error). Neither does email; it used to work. Demotix Uploader never worked for me. I don't own LR or Photo Mechanic. Presently, direct upload is the only, and iffy, option.

I'm really sorry to hear that - if you have any more detail about the error you get or can take a screenshot, send it to support {at} demotix.com - or directly to me, and I can make sure it goes to the right person in tech. Don't take problems like this lying down - if you don't complain, we can't fix it!

James
is there a hard and fast reason why there is a 25 photo limit on stories,

As Chris said, we like to get you to think about which your best images are and edit them down to a selection, rather than just blasting everything out there and hoping someone will take the time to sort through them all and find the good ones for you. Picture editors are stressed out, overworked people - you need to give them your top product on a plate!

Steve
Why are tags #7, and key words #10 all optional entries?

#7 & #10 - This is optional because not everyone uses it at the moment, so we don't want to suddenly start forcing it on people. We may rethink it in future.

Hello everyone,

@james: "One other thing, is there a hard and fast reason why there is a 25 photo limit ...."

@chris: "@ James The reason why there is a 25 picture limit is this is a news wire not flickr. "

this topic has already been discussed in a different discussion and although Chris, Stephen and Tom convincingly argued in favour of 25 images, in principle I am still in favour of more images per story not only for the reasons given by James, but also for the fact that Demotix is a news agency and not a newspaper.

A newspaper editor has to edit the number of images per story, and by default the reporter, but a news agency has to offer the editor all the best possible options.

Like James, I recently reported two celeb photo call stories and by their nature there were more than 25 celebs present, and therefore had to split the stories. The two guys next to me who were reporting for a local agency filed more than 25 images for their report (both are available on the internet.)

On the other hand I can understand the limitations on space and management of large stories on the IT side.

My best solution would be 50 images per story, with the option of the editors removing any images they deem not relevant. And if more images are available then file two stories.

The bottom line, as far as I am concerned, is that we tell stories by photos first and text as supporting information and background. So the emphasis ought to be on photos and not text. To put it in an other way, our strong point is that we can compete with any one on photos, and we do it better than most, but our weak point is that there are better authorities out there reporting the text side of any story.

best

Lawrence

A further thought on max 25 images if an over worked picture editor is faced with 10 images he will scan them and probably pick one or two if faced with a whole page he will be overwhelmed,not be able to see the good from the average and look at some one else's story....

Most of the time splitting a story in to 2 or 3 indicates poor editing and could also indicate also a lack of judgement on what a good (or mediocre ) images is so picture editors are less likely to wade though the images. They will go to some one who had done the initial edit for them and only given them their best images.

In this case a really good image in a pile of 25+ could get missed in favour of a poorer image that stands out as the best of 10.

I note for the same event where one Demotix reporter had to file 3 stories (over 50 images) another posted less than 25 images.

There are a very few exceptions as Lawrence states above where there are more than 25 celebrities where you may want more than 25 images.... but how many were real A list celibrities? Again have a look at Heat/Hello/OK etc double page spread of an event..... count the number of images used. I bet it is less than 25.

I had an all day 2 location event with over 15,000 people and a march (ride it was motorbikes). The newspaper (on a double page spread) used 20 images. Of the 300 images I took I posted less than 10%. You have to edit the set and learn to do it quickly.

BTW I would point out that Demotix who have put this limit on are mainly staffed by people who have journalistic experience and/or training.

The 25 image limit is good and should very rarely ever be exceeded.
Demotix is a news service not flikr.

Hello Chris,

It is always a pleasure to read your comments.

I have a feeling that the 25 images topic is one of those instances where the arguments and most of the evidence point in one direction, but the exceptions make the rule.

I agree with you that one does not want to inundate a picture editor with photos, that is the basic message of the Paradox of Choice - which is basically that the more choices we have the higher the chances are we end up not choosing any option - but the answer to the paradox is to know exactly what we want in which case more choice is better than fewer choices. (I can find ref's for this, but wikipedia, google or ted conference would be a good start)

As for celebs, indeed who is a celeb? Of course, I must add a note here, I am talking about Spanish celebs which means that only a handful would be relevant internationally. So the international A list in Spain would look different from the local A list. And even if someone does not make an A list today, you'll never know what the future holds.

ITMT, I've just had a quick look at Getty, AP and Reuters and they don't seem to have a limit for their stories. For example Getty (Spanish site) have 193 images for LBY: Interim Authority Forces Target Sirte, six images for NZL: Phil Goff Addresses Media In Auckland and 38 images for ESP: Barcelona Erotic Fair 2011.

I suspect that Stephen and Tom are going to have a few sleepless nights on this topic - with or without the incense!!

best

Lawrence

Many thanks for your detailed reply!

"I'm really sorry to hear that - if you have any more detail about the error you get or can take a screenshot, send it to support {at} demotix.com - or directly to me, and I can make sure it goes to the right person in tech. Don't take problems like this lying down - if you don't complain, we can't fix it!"

Did email a screenshot of the FTP error recently, when there was a flurry of upload issues, but nothing happened, as I got the same upload error with my subsequent stories. Will send you screenshot when it happens again.

Thank you again for your attention and support!

Looking forward to the new upload page.

Lawrence you say "And even if someone does not make an A list today, you'll never know what the future holds." Very true.... so catalogue your images well (including key words and captions in lightroom or where ever you store them). However it does not mean they need to be uploaded today for today's news. Demotix is about today's news.

If the local Z list Celebrity becomes international A list later this year/decade etc Then is the time to bring out the background pictures for a Feature Article. With pictures from past and present.

Incidentally one thing that is important is the story with the images and captions. Whilst the newspaper will use your images and captions as they are and write their own story they will need many of the details from your story. So the more you can write the better. You were on the spot.

With reference to the talk on how many images to allow, it really does come down to how good of an editor you are with your own images. Buyers are looking for top quality images, not mediocre shots, that tell the story.

As an example if you are covering a demonstration (as most of what is submitted to Demotix deals with), and you happen to shoot 9 shots of the same banner as it comes down the street, how many of those shots should you realistically submit? all of them? Are they all top quality, and more importantly do they each tell a different story about what is going on? Chances are there is only one, or two of them that should realistically be included with the set, as only one, or two of them is of top quality, and needed to tell the unique story of that particular part of the event.

This is what buyers look at, and they for the most part don't have the time to look through hundreds of pictures from just one person picking out the shots that tell the story. They expect the quality issue of editing to already have been done. They expect to look a just a few images, and see the story. Sure there are a few exceptions to this, as there are exceptions to everything, but for the most part this is how it works, and what is expected.

This is the type of editing that needs to be done in staying under the 25 limit, not that you have more than 25 unique shots of unique story situations, but that people are relying on someone else to edit out the mediocre shots that are telling the same story as the top quality shots. This is why the 25 limit is in place. If it wasn't Demotix would be flooded with every single picture a contributor shot at an event. There would be no editing on the contributor's part at all. In my personal opinion 25 is very liberal on Demotix's part...hehehehe.

I agree with Steve and there is another point to think about.....

If "John Smith" always posts 25 pictures or often multiple sets of pictures of the same event when editors have seen this a couple of times they will not bother looking at any stories by "John smith" as they know it will contain a lot of average pictures with the good ones hidden in there somewhere.

So rather than increase the limit from 25 to 50 you should normally edit so 25 is a maximum you hit occasionally. There will only be a very rare occasion when more than 25 are needed. Otherwise the picture editors will automatically not bother looking at anything from "john smith"

Guys, I want to complain. I try to upload the news, I upload all 25 files and then what I see after clicking ADD is this

Access to this page is restricted to members of Demotix. It's free and easy to join, so why not sign up?

It is not the first time and not the only one case when it happened and it is very very irritating. I am uploading files again.

I get that too. It happens at random times and no pattern to it. So it is difficult to say what the problem is.

Validation error, please try again. If this error persists, please contact the site administrator.

Tried FTP, it said "ECONNABORTED - Connection aborted" in the middle. What the hell is this? I have a couple of stories I want to upload now!

Have you tried using the standalone Demotix uploader? Works well for me in Thailand.

Zoya - I'm going to bring up your problems with the tech team right away and will let everyone know what the outcome is.

I've complained in the past about the uploading system, which is now way better than it used to be and has been working almost seamlessly for some months now.
Most of the improvements seem good to me, but mostly the #11. That's a life saver, and a welcome function!
Thanks!

Thanks Tom. Such technical problems are very discouraging. I have at least 2 stories now and it takes too long to do it with such technical problems. I used the uploader, seems ok. But anyway, it logs me out by itself whenever it wants to...
Please do smth about it, that reduces efficiency so much ((

Re images per story: (apologies this is long)
Hello everyone,

I am beginning to think that this topic should be moved to its own discussion, but in the meantime…..

The only justification to limit the number of images per story if for IT reasons. Which of course, I can understand and a good enough reason for me to accept 25 images.

But an IT reason is not a journalistic reason. The main argument many of you have put forward for limiting the number images is to exclude those photos that are not the best of the best: ie rigorous editing. Yes, of course, but we should be doing this whether the limit is 5 images or 5,000 images. And in any case, there is no guarantee that the 25 we up loading are the best of the best, as opposed to up loading 50, or 500 or 5000. I’m afraid the argument to limit so that we up load our best of the best does not hold. We should always up loading the best of the best, period.

@Steve “Buyers are looking for top quality images, not mediocre shots, that tell the story.” Yes, of course, the question is what is a top quality image, what is a mediocre image and what are editors prepared to buy! From my experience (and not just photography) it is amazing what some people like and don’t like. It is one thing to upload technically poor images (camera and composition) for no reason at all and another to upload what we enjoy looking at. Don’t forget, that sometimes editors use a photo because it can be verified by looking at the other photos. I don’t remember where we discussed this, but a single photo has less value for an editor than a photo in a story, even if it is the same photo.

@Steve, “you happen to shoot 9 shots of the same banner as it comes down the street, how many of those shots should you realistically submit?”.... “only one, or two of them is of top quality, and needed to tell the unique story of that particular part of the event.” (Please refer to the actual post.) At face value this is true and valid, except of course we know, or at least I know because Demotix editors have told me so, those editors in many cases like to see both a portrait and a landscape version of a scene. We know this for a fact, and not guessing what an editor might do, so if we take this to its logical conclusion every image ought to be supplied both in landscape and portrait format, which leaves us with 12 images for a story and a joker!! However, I have just checked with the current headline stories on the front page and out of a total of 44 images for the three stories only 3 were in portrait format (0.068%) and none of them had an equivalent in landscape format. Of course, I am guilty of not supply both versions, and I know for a fact that editors appreciate having both versions in many cases.

But Steve gives the answer to the issue of taking nine shots of the banner in the same street; the answer is “tell the unique story.” Hence, the answer to which photo we upload must surely be the one that tells the unique story, after having passed the technical test.

But we are forgetting a hat trick here. Whilst individually, we are duty bound to upload our best of the best, our collective stories of an event give each of our individual stories more value than any individual story could possibly have. So Steve, whilst we are duty bound not to upload mediocre stories, someone’s mediocre photo might confirm the validity my photo and my photo might end up being chosen by an editor as a consequence.

However, during the summer disturbances in the centre of Madrid, whilst I was photographing the head banner in a peaceful demo protected by the police, my colleagues were photographic mayhem in Sol, which was part of the same event. So my photos of a peaceful demo with the head banner is various streets of Madrid is put into context with the stories of my colleagues. If you are telling a story you are telling a story, the question is what is part of the story and what is extra? I would argue that it is for editors to decide the extra part, whilst we have to keep to guideline set out by the editor, and sometimes maybe not, who knows!

@Chris, “If the local Z list Celebrity becomes international A list later this year/decade etc Then is the time to bring out the background pictures for a Feature Article. With pictures from past and present.”

Yes this is a valid solution except for two points: the competition already have the Z list on their servers, and secondly, assuming that the Demotix editor in London knows what we have on our hard drive, it might be too late by the time our images are on stream and assuming we are not on holiday etc. Hence, those of you who have images of celebs who were born before the war ought to have those images up and running on Demtix today!! (Yes, I know it sounds callous, but this our business)

@Chris “Incidentally one thing that is important is the story with the images and captions.” Let me first say that those of us who ignore Chris’s advice about matters journalistic do so at our own risk. Chris is right to emphasise the text side of the story especially, the captions. I should have made it clear before that I did not mean to diminish the importance of text in our reports, but unless we have some special or unique information the text should not over shadow the photos.

As for captions, Juliette complimented me for translating the messages on banners during a demonstration. It now takes me longer to file a demo story (I do start translating earlier), I do take Juliette’s comment as being the final authority on the subject: the law is that banners not written in English should be translated!! Hence, those of us who are showing images of placards not written in English without a translation are probably not captioning all that well.

To conclude, all the journalistic reasons given so far to limit the number of images per story, apply anyway whatever the number of images we are allowed to upload per story. Moreover, even when we do know for a fact what editors look at, many of us do not submit what is required. And finally, as I said before, neither the scientific evidence nor our big shot competitors support the idea of a limited number of images per story.

On the other hand, if limiting the number of images per story makes the IT operations and the filing of stories quicker and more efficient than I will be the first person to support this policy, and I do support it because this makes sense. But not, unfortunately, for the journalistic reasons given so far.

Best

Lawrence

Zoya - we do understand that it's very frustrating. It seems to be a problem with our Facebook integration on the site - we're going to try disabling it again. Please let us know if this helps.

Tom, I am very very sad. Today was a final trial and Yulia Timoshenko was sentenced to 7 years in prison. I tried to upload FEMEN protesting, and because of those problems I had to do it partially, now I try to add more to the story which seems to be published already.
I have at least one more story to upload about the whole protest participated by thousands of people, police and opposition leaders. And I have to cope with technical problems to upload that

Zoya - have you tried the upload page again since we've turned off Facebook? If that is the source of the problem, it should be working much better.

I'm really sorry that you're having these problems - we're obviously really interested in your photos! The more information you give us, the better we'll be able to help.

@ Lawrence all the arguments on numbers of images I have seen so far are for journalistic reasons..... nothing to do with IT at all.

With the Lightroom, photomechanic and FTP loaders There are AFAICS fewer IT reasons for a number of images uploaded than in the past. This is purely for photo-journalistic reasons. You have to edit the numbers of your images down.

Perhaps you want to start a thread on this topic under Journalism?

@Chris by IT reasons I mean server load rate, storage space, bandwidth, and managing of thousands of images. Nothing to do with the images themselves or the software we use.

I will start the discussion on Journalism, but have to go now: Maybe you or Tom would like to start it off in the meantime. But I'll certainly do it late this evening.

Thanks

Lawrence

I think a discussion on the Journalism forum would be great. I think it might be best coming from you guys; maybe you could create a pithy summary of your positions on the matter to kick-start things? Wading through all of this text might be a bit intimidating for people coming into the conversation

guys, it loggs me out again, when i do not upload anything, just surf or add comments

Zoya, do you notice any pattern to the times when you are logged out? Does it happen after you take any specific actions, browse through a particular sequence of pages on the site, or anything like that? There's a limit to what the tech team can do to help if we can't find something repeatable that causes you to be logged out.

Tom, I will try to pay attention. So far there has been nothing particular. I will pay attention and write here about it.
Last upload went ok, I used demotix uploader software.
Thanks.

it actually signs me in automatically when I open it. but that is a convenient thing

Great news! It does make life a lot easier if you use the Uploader or other FTP software.

I would recommend any serious demotix reporter looking at Lightroom.

It is a cataloguing and image management system. It can also do all the image editing that is permitted for news images. (a lot more actually) And you can add all the keywords etc and captions (as well as a lot of other ITPC metadata) on your PC and use the Demotix unloader to load images, titles, captions and keywords all at once.

This also means that on your PC rather than directories of images you have a picture library of sets of titled, captioned and key-worded images. Absolutely essential for finding images from last year, last month, last week etc.

See some of the light room videos and try the evel version. Once converted you will never go back.

I have no connection with Adobe other than a happy LR user.

Hi!

1. Caption - it should be more than 250 characters - if You have 3 or 4 persons on the picture - every has a name, surname, and official function , and You have also write what and where is going on , the 250 charakters is not enogh

2. More IPTC field should be stored - especially "SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS " field - it is very important field in every photo agency , You can write restrictions there for egz if picture is paparazzi, or You can sold it only on restricted area , you don't want to credit photo etc. I use it very often for egz: "Poland only" , "Paparazzi - do not credit" "Using in bad contecst - fobiden" etc

Michal

I'm a new person here with three stories submitted, so I'm still finding my way around.

One thing I have yet to see when uploading is a "submit" option. It's probably there but I haven't seen it. I get to the "save" button, save my work, and then it takes off after the 2nd or 3rd time to Demotix. So I never know when it's going.

I have no problem getting the pictures in the system. I do find the "titles" such as the "media summary" confusing. That could be for anything.

From a writer's point of view, I just want a title such as "Story of the Event" and then for the summary, "Summary of the Event."

But looking at it from Demotix point of view, brokering mainly the pictures, then your titles are appropiate.

But it is confusing a bit.

I try to get whatever story into the system fast as I can, regardless me living here in this laid back place.

But anyway, I appreciate the opportunity demotix. You might consider offering buyer-clients photographers who can photograph their interests on quick notice, to expand your horizons. Then you could just give us a call.

My only other comment is I think you might work on communciating with your writers a bit faster.

Ken, thanks for your feedback.

I agree that the wording of the current page is a bit confusing, and we'll make sure that it's as clear as possible in the revamped effort. The help text at the right-hand side should make things a bit easier as well.

We do offer contributors assignments on a regular basis (several each month) and hopefully should be stepping this up as Demotix grows into the future.

We do try and get back to everyone within 24 hours (and usually faster!) - I'm sorry if you've had a negative experience.

I think I have to write it again :

1. Caption - it should be more than 250 characters - if You have 3 or 4 persons on the picture - every has a name, surname, and official function , and You have also write what and where is going on , the 250 charakters is not enogh

2. More IPTC field should be stored - especially "SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS " field - it is very important field in every photo agency , You can write restrictions there for egz if picture is paparazzi, or You can sold it only on restricted area , you don't want to credit photo etc. I use it very often for egz: "Poland only" , "Paparazzi - do not credit" "Using in bad contecst - fobiden" etc

Tom, is any chance to do it ?

Michal

Tom, I had to sign in about 5 times today trying to edit tags in my last story and then one more time to post here. During the attempt to edit tags again got that message "sorry" "Access to this page is restricted to members of Demotix. It's free and easy to join, so why not sign up"

Our greatest strength is also our greatest weakness. Demotix can boast of a global band of self-motivated photographers as good as 'old media.' However, all of them, each and every image, has to pass through the dreaded upload page. Obviously, not all feedback/complaints are acted upon, understandably.

I feel the 'new and improved' upload page needs a vital third button, right next to "Save as draft" and "Upload story," and that is: Upload problems?

Clicking on this button will take the contributor to a form page where all the pertinent, minimum details that the tech team needs to get a handle on the specific issue are entered: date & time, user id, story title, multiple-choice radio buttons narrowing down the type of problem, brief description in words of the difficulty, screenshots (another upload!), and so on.

Hopefully, some problems will be fixed in real time, enabling important stories to get through; most issues are resolved within a reasonable time-frame, so contributors don't face recurring difficulties.

I had a VERY frustrating time of uploading a story yesterday, error messages the lot, then it ended up in pending twice.

It wasn't pretty, of course this was through a mobile connection. Ended up uploading the photo's twice which was a very slow process then they ended up showing twice, of course I didn't find them till they were both up, between eorror messages etc. Grrr. Not blamming anyone here, just the system as it is did my head in.

There has got to be a more simple way to do it and I think, no HOPE that drafts will fix a lot of these issues.

This one page system should be a big improvement - as you say, eliminating many of the frustrations of the current system. Point 11 is especially welcome. It is often more convenient to be able to upload the story (text details) in advance, or during a break in shooting an extended event, and add the pics after. Previously I've done this on a separate word document ready for copying and pasting later. Much easier to be able to do it direct on the Demotix site.

Automatic saving of drafts is good, because occasionally if one hits the wrong key, or their is a connection problem, one can lose work just entered.

I use Photomechanic, and so far haven't managed to upload or get your system to accept different captions for each image, though there seems to be no problem with a generic caption covering the set. So I have resorted to using a generic caption, then editing it for individual images on your current Page Two - all rather cumbersome. The new system should aid this, too.

Finally, I can't find a way to fill your "individuals" field using Photomechanic, so being able to do that on a new one page set-up will also help.

Re additional desirable features - see the last two paragraphs. If different captions for each pic, and the "individuals" data can be entered in Photomechanic, and recognised and incorporated by the Demotix system, that would be better still. (Alternatively someone tell me that it's me not using PM correctly, and tell me what I need to do to overcome these two problems.)

But overall should be a great improvement - keep up the good work.

Regards, Ken

I have no real problems with the LR plugin (PPC Mac and LR2.7) uploading titles, individual captions and keywords. It is absolutely wonderful Particularly when we get the new "save" feature.

My only minor problems are
1 Me not remembering the caption limit and not being able to find it anywhere.... (it's 250 chars and 70 for thetitle)

2 As with Photo mechanic , in LR there is no "individuals" in the LR metadata.....

Though I am struggling with the IPTC codes particularly the numbered codes for subject code, genre, scene etc...

A shame a lot of this info can't be gelled from the LR keywords.