What are our duties to the Demotix brand?

Lawrence,

I think this is a great topic for discussion.

'With every right comes an equal or greater responsibility' This is a good place to start.

If we are granted the right to use a Demotix press pass we are using the Demotix name and resources, therefore I believe it is proper to then give Demotix the first refusal on any photos shot under that press pass, ie shot under their name.

My logical conclusion says that.......

I am in effect saying "I'm shooting for Demotix as I have their pass" so if that is the case, it is right to at least allow Demotix the first benefit of those images gained with their help.

We become the 'face' of this agency when using their pass, therefore, for our sake, the sake of Demotix and the other Demotix photogs, we all need to act with the same professionalism that we would expect from others. What we do affects each other.

There endith the lesson for today!

I would say you should give Demotix more then the first benefit of photos you have shoot at an event you have gained entrance with a Demotix Press Pass or based on an accreditation you got by saying you shoot for Demotix. You should give Demotix the exclusive rights for these pictures.

If an event organiser gives you access to his event it's because he thinks you can give him a good exposure in the media, not because you have a nice camera. If you now don't give him this exposure, because you don't submit to Demotix or submit to someone else (perhaps a media outlet, the organiser don't want to see his pictures in), it might reduce the chance for you (or for another photographer who shoots for Demotix) to get an accreditation for the next event from this organiser.

Therefore I would say that if you get accreditation for an event, because you shoot for Demotix, the pictures should be exclusively distributed through Demotix.

I agree. However the problem is not a lot of people understand professional ethics.

I had a think about the above. I agree with CH & MD, the tactic I have started to employ is to look up the Editors of likely publications and email them a link to my Demotic page and a brief as to what I have shot.

Hello Everyone, apologies for not following the discussion before: I totally agree with the idea that if you get accreditation using Demotix then the first /exclusive filing should be with Demotix. The issue is that maybe there are people who contribute regularly but when a choice event comes along those who hardly every file anything might be the first in the queue for accreditation. Sooner or later Demotix will have to sort this one out. Best Lawrence

This is a thoroughly appropriate subject for discussion, especially in view of Demotix's growing place in the brave new world of "Street Journalism." It's the future - it's already in the present.

I am not sure that our ethics would require us to give photographis rights exclusively to Demotix, even though I practice this myself. Accessing an opportunity by using a Demotix Press Pass would certainly put one in an I-owe-Demotix frame of mind. One would however need to be fairly confident that Demotix was being energetic in pushing our images to media buyers - Demotix is, after all, an agency acting on behalf of us, its members and producers. I am not convinced that the administration has sufficient resources to do that yet. Correct me if I am wrong.

There are other ways in which we can and should help to build the Demotix brand. For example, photojournalism is not just about photographs; it is also about stories. If we are sloppy in the presentation of our stories it reflects poorly on Demotix and on our own standing as journalists - we don't have a great deal of subbing going on and need to be very diligent in checking our own spelling and typing. For starters. These are simple things that you and I certainly can do. Heck if journos can't spell, who the hell can?

I think we should keep this discussion "ongoing" - we're riding the same pioneering wave that Demotix itself is riding. If we work on the understanding (reflected in the conversations above) that we have both rights and concomitant duties as "Demotixers" then the future can be fun for us all.

agree 100% with Dr Chris. Recently we had one "professional" photographer on Demotix drop a complete Reuters story in as the story with his pictures!!!!! We had another photographer send in some "breaking news" images with only 3 non-discript keywords because he "did not have time" to keyword and caption properly. he was then compering that Demotix did not push the story. I looked at his story (a UK one) and had no idea it was significant from his keywords and captions. (the Demotix Duty editor that night was not in the UK so he did not stand a chance)

As you say professional presentation.
Images,
keywords
captions
(without all three done correctly there is no point in uploading)
then there is the story. This will give the editors a chance to understand the images and will help with any sub editing of the caption, tags etc.

Also other agencies sell complete stories. Not just images. In time Demotix could do the same.

this is a photo JOURNALIST web site not flikr, smug mug etc

just had a post of mine go to moderation... now running at 90% on average! and a message alert for a message (from some one else) that is not here...

@Chris Westinghouse. "give photographis rights exclusively to Demotix" I don't think that anyone is proposing giving up the rights, not even Demotix, and they say thsi in the contract. What ought to be done, is that if you use the Demotix press card or Demotix accreditation that you should file that story with Demotix. Maybe after a a suitable period period of time then one is free to distribute those photos elsewhere. Of course, one can cover a story without using Demotix accreditation. Speaking for myself, this would be very difficult for me now since a lot of people in Madrid know me as a Demotix photographer. However, what Demotix needs to work on next is to create an editorial site where we can file our stock that does not appear in our stories. Maybe Demotix can come to some arrangement with Corbis and other agencies to give us the opportunity to file with them and then share the fees with Demotix the way it is done now. This will save the hassle for Demotix to file on our behalf. Best Lawrence

@Chris, "Also other agencies sell complete stories. Not just images. In time Demotix could do the same. .....this is a photo JOURNALIST web site" Indeed tagging ans captioning are really important and of course writing a story to go with the image. But filing a breaking story and a documentary are two different issues. I have already mentioned the idea of having a grading button for the urgency of a story. But for breaking stories one does need some back office help to fill in some details. For example the celeb photocalls I'm doing means that apart from the high profile celebs the others require time to find out who they are, even if one has the name, never mind not having the name. Indeed celeb work requires that even the back office know who they are in order to push the photos. I don't think that happens at Demotix apart from the obvious people. Maybe in the future as you say. And that is not taking into account paparazzi work; I mean how can or how could Demotix work with paparazzi work? How does one manage exclusives via Demotix at three o'clock in the morning? I mean it is not a problem staying up till 3 or 5 in the AM, but not knowing whether they will pushed or not is probably asking a lot. Best Lawrence

@Chris my comments have been chewed up by the spam bot!

I see it as just the opposite Lawrence. The back office needs all the help it can get from the person submitting breaking news in filling in the details, after all it is breaking news so theoretically no one knows about it yet. This is one area that needs major improvement on the part of the contributor, supplying the relevant facts.

There are far to many submitted stories without the proper details filled in, and key wording is only a small part of that mix. Proper captioning is the biggest downfall. There are a few instances that the same caption can be used for multiple images, but this is a very bad habit to get into on the part of a contributor. If a unique caption for an image can not be thought out by the submitter then is it worth submitting, or distributing that image? There can always be something that is unique about each image submitted.

This is why Demotix tries to instill timeliness in submitting your contributions. There are now Demotix staff covering incoming contributions 24 hours a day, after all Demotix is a global supplier, not just selling in certain parts of the world. At your 3:00, or 5:00am there is an editor/buyer just starting to look at what will go in the next days print somewhere in the world. Demotix now pushes those images deserving distribution 24 hours a day.

This is where individually captioning your images, and filling in the names of anyone identifiable helps. With the proper captioning of all the images an editor can write a story good enough for print just from the captions, then use the individual images that best tell the story visually.

There is nothing wrong at all with joining some of the stock agencies to submit your excess images too, although most are considerably stricter than Demotix on what you submit to them quality wise. Demotix would also be this way if they opened a stock subsidiary as you suggest Lawrence, so joining another agency would accomplish the same thing without Demotix expanding into this area. It is a thought though. You should pursue all avenues you can to sell your work. That is the only way you can generate enough income in this day, and age with all the competition everywhere you turn.

We agree...

Images,
keywords
captions
(without all three done correctly there is no point in uploading)
then there is the story. adding a story properly will give the Demotix editors a chance to understand the images and will help with any sub editing of the caption, tags etc. Also pushing of the images.

Demotix is a photo JOURNALIST web site not flikr, smug mug et

Well said CH,
That reminds me, some of my captions are a bit on the 'skinny' side!

@Steve- I discussed some of the issues from your post in my post to Chris maybe it will be rescued on Monday by Tom. No one is suggesting that we do not caption or tag, but a lot depends on the circumstances on the ground. Some stories are very time sensitive, for example photocalls, paparazzi work, or breaking news. Sometimes you only need to give basic info, the image should tell most of the story. For example images of a transport disaster. And let us not forget many PJs are in contact by phone with their editor; at least in the majority of cases I have covered, eg. photocalls, fashion catwalks, major events etc. And with photocalls and the like maybe someone in the back office might recognise a personality that the PJ might not know: this is my case. As for submitting to other agencies maybe after a week or two, but if you are filing real time then get an NUJ card and not a Demotix Card - I don't think that Reuters and the like allow their PJs to file real time with other agencies. If you're there because of Demotix then you should file with Demotix: PERIOD. @Chris, yeas we are journalist, but our medium to convey a story is photography first, ideally the photo should still tell the story even if it gets separated from the caption. Best Lawrence

Steve - Chris tried to reply but post sent to moderator post is now here: http://lawmoment.blogspot.com

@ Lawrence No mater how you slice it: IT IS ALWAYS
Images, keywords, captions
without all three done correctly there is no point in uploading.
There is ZERO point in uploading any image without all the keywords or the picture editors will never see the image. They search on keywords.

When they find the images (which won't include yours due to lack of key words) They will take the ones with the captions that tell them what is happening. They don't have time to guess.

So if you "don't have time" to do the keywords and captions please don't clog up the system by uploading images. If you remember the thread by Mr Pics who "did not have time" to do captions and keywords but uploaded the images.. He was able to sell the images directly to several national newspapers because they had not found them on they keyword searches.

More to the point the Demotix Editor had no information in the captions of story to see any reason to push the story.

The facts are that "breaking stories" you upload without keywords and captions are going nowhere. Some one who uploads an hour (or in this case 12 hours) later with relevant captions of keywords WILL get the sale.

As the proverb says: More haste less speed.